tv Viewpoint With Eliot Spitzer Current August 20, 2012 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
early voters. 82% in franklin county voted on nights and weekend. 82%. "viewpoint" with eliot spitzer is next. [ ♪ theme music ♪ ] >> eliot: good evening i'm eliot spitzer and this is "viewpoint." i almost feel sorry for mitt pit. just like michael corleone in "the godfather," every time he thinks he has pulled out he is pulled back in. every time he wants to talk about the economy he gets pulled back to talkings about the issues that the democrats want to talk about. like the g.o.p. war on women. it happened when todd akin had this to say on the subject of rape victims and presscy pregnancy.
>> if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. but let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something. you know, i think there ought to be punishment. it ought to be in the rapist and not attacking the child. >> legitimate rape. he's kidding. claire mccaskill said, as a woman and former prosecutors who has handled hundreds of rape cases i'm stunned by a akin's comments. so was mitt romney. congressman akin's comments on rape are insulting inexcusable and frankly wrong. like millions of others americans we find them to be offensive. president obama also attacked akin's remarks. >> the views expressed were offensive. rape is rape. the idea that we should be
parsing and qualifying and slicing what types of rape we're talking about doesn't make sense to the american people. >> eliot: condemned from all sides, congress akin said he misspoke and apologized on the mike huckabee show. >> i used the wrong words in the wrong way. i also know that people do become pregnant from rape, and i didn't mean to imply that didn't--wasn't the case. it does happen. and i really just wasn't to apologize to those that i've hurt. >> eliot: akin also reassured supporters he was in the race to stay. >> the good people of missouri nominated me and i'm not a quitter. and my belief is we're going to take this thing forward. and by the grace of god we're going to win this race. >> eliot: senator mccaskill seemed to like the idea that he was staying in the race.
passionate supporters could turn against the party if it moved against him. >> for the national party to come in here and dictate to the republican primary voters they're going to invalidate their decision that could be radical and that there could be a backlash. >> eliot: massachusetts senator scott brown wrote representative akin's statement was so far out of bounds that he should resign the nomination in missouri. senator john corryn announced that akin would not get any more party campaign funds and over the next 24 hours congressman akin should carefully consider what is best for him and his% family and the values he cares about. senator mitch mcconnell chimed in saying he should consider weather he should represent the republican party.
and paul ryan said he should, quote, rethink his campaign. >> congressman ryan has sponsor sponsored legislation with congressman akin to narrow the definition of rape. both governor romney and congressman ryan has endorsed human life amendments that would abandon abortion in all forms including rape and incest and some forms of birth control. >> eliot: for more on this story i'm joined by n nia machine malkia henderson. and earn carmone. >> it was just a damaging or
horrific statement that he made and he just has to go. he'll do an interview on one of the cable networks. he has released an additional statement saying he has no intention of leaving this race. he obviously felt the president elevate this to a new level midday with his news conference. they're worried they're staring at a 20-point gender gap between mitt romney and president obama and this feeds the idea of the war on women that you see democrats talk about. they released statements all day. you saw nancy pelosi release a statement. and they try to tie paul ryan to akin and in some ways it's not so difficult because they have had bills they sponsored around the issues of rape and abortion. he has got some thinking to do, but i don't think i've ever seen
something so swift in washington such a swift unified front to push something out of the race. >> eliot: every time the republican party says there is no war on women someone in their party comes out with this. which is horrifying beyond words. one issue that you did not tick back is taking back the control of the senate. almost impossible for them to do without winning the missouri senate seat. they thought it was in the bag and an easy win. now it's exploding in their faces. they think they can get a candidate in there of their own choosing if they get todd akin out. and had how do they plan to do this going forward? >> that's right. i think there is obviously background conversation going on. those have been going on since the morning trying to push him out of the state the nrcc was trying to do that. but i've seen these very public denunciations telling him to move out of the race. i think one of the issues going
forward is whether or not he feels like there is some wing of the republican party you saw leaders of the family research council, and you saw mike huckabee give is something of a tepid indoorsment, certainly not a denunciation of this. i think he feels at some point there might be some wing of the republican party some wing of the missouri republican voters who will support him. but you're right. it's all about this senate seat, and claire mccaskill wants him to stay in the race. democrats funded all of these ads during the race, $2 million in that race because they wanted this candidate. so we'll see if they're effective. >> eliot: there is a wing of the republican party a lunatic wing. loner, legitimate rape. this is a phrase i never heard before, i hope to never hear it again. what is this guy talking about? >> i think we need to separate
out a few minutes. one, the republican and their position. legitimate rape, what they're calling is not consensual rape, but that the uterus has a way to determine if the sperm is wanted or not. every knows that's crazy but that's pseudoscience. but the context of what he was saying you should never had exceptions for rape. romney claims that's not his position. but house of representatives have been trying and passing laws to this effect. if they do take over the senate, that's one less bull work of this becoming law. >> eliot: you're right. one is the moronic idiocy of the science that they rely upon like so much of their ill-fated logic. but 32,000 pregnancies every year from rape.
the notion that the body says no that's insane. on the substantive issue of whether there should be exceptions on their prohibition of abortion, paul ryan is where todd akin is. >> absolutely. and where they both are and this was overlooked, todd akin wants to ban the morning after bill. which is birth control. that was a key issue and mitt romney he vetoed the access at the hospital. i think there is a real substantive question that is getting lost here in all the points keeping. if the republicans take over the senate with this man's help. if romney and ryan, if they prevail, then we actually are going to be talking about should we ban the morning after bill. this is not alarmism. this is their policy. you just have to listen to them. >> eliot: nia, it is amazing to me that all the focus on paul ryan since he was put on this
ticket has been on the budget, and chattering heads in washington say you can put down numbers and forget the fact that they don't add up. it's ridiculous. no one has focused on the remarkable right wing social agenda. paul ryan is going to be pulled into this debate. how will he runaway from this? >> that's right. you have seen from the democrats and the obama campaign tend to put this forward. they released an ad on friday. saturday they held the same basically saying that mitt romney's position on abortion and women's issues and planned parenthooded are the same as paul ryan. they will end funding. they are against abortion and even in cases of rape. you saw this effort from democrats to try to do that. then you have this gift in many ways of this akin statement. they're going to try to highlight this, exploit this and really try to feed on this moment and really try to make
that gap even bigger, this gap that romney has in terms of support with women. so i don't know how they runaway from it. ryan has been very clear saying, well listen, pretty much my suits have evolved into the party at this point. they have evolved into romney's belief. he's the top of the ticket. but i don't know how they're going to get away with essentially etch-a-sketching ryan's record on abortion. >> eliot: paul ryan's position is you can have an abortion only if the life of the mother is at risk. not even in cases of rape or incest. this is as extreme as i could imagine. >> it is extreme and internally inconsistent. >> eliot: it can be extreme. >> i agree with you. i have some respect for people who are honest about the consistency about their views. if they believe that abortion is murder. if they're making up the science
of birth control. it's outside of the mainstream of where most americans are. >> eliot: since that's where paul ryan is, it's very hard for me to imagine given how women across the partisan divide feel about access to abortion privileges and healthcare, hard to see how the republican party closes a gender gap when paul ryan is on the ticket and this issue right now. >> i think by choosing paul ryan they signal they're not worried is the gender gap. they're worried about shoring up the base. he has not run for the base. either from an economic perspective. they've made a strategic position they did not pick a moderate person. they did not pick someone who has the same positions that romney chose to have in the general election. they think maybe if they get enough conservative white people, conservative white men to vote for them, then they can close the deal.
>> eliot: nia, let me come back to you. the republican party turning off the spigot of money. saying no more money for todd akin. what happens to akin's campaign? does it wither on the vine? they have until 5:00 to change candidates. what happens. >> we've seen these dramas play out in washington where there is initially a cry to leave a race. they say they're going to stick in it, and then five days later they drop out. we saw this with anthony wiener. my guess is maybe he'll--you know, i don't like to make predictions. it's hard to see how he stays in this race. also, i don't necessarily know what his incentive is to leave. he doesn't have his congressional seat to go back to. maybe in his mind he could become a folk hero to a certain wing of the party become a poster boy in that way. we'll see. he has got no money. he has got no support other than
claire mccaskill. >> cenk: no money. no friends. his staff will disappear because them' get the mention message if you work with this guy, you'll never work in another campaign. i'm hoping that he just stays in for that. nia malik henderson and. >> caller: rirnecarmone. thanks for coming in. >> thank you. >> eliot: does president obama want the deal too much? that's coming up. >> this court has proven to be the knowing, delighted accomplice in the billionaires' purchase of our nation. >> and you think it doesn't affect you? think again.
you want to save money on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem. you want to find a place to park all these things? fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance.
his capacity to stand for the principles that led the public to support him in the first place. barack obama's desperation to reach across the aisle led him to sacrifice his social reform. author of "compromising positions." and "the pitying billion mayor" and "what's the matter with kansas." thank you for coming tonight. >> it's great to be here. >> eliot: tell us why this happened, and how it happened. >> in some ways it was in the cards from the beginning. compromise, i live here--i moved to washington, d.c. what, eight years ago eliot and i discovered that among democrats here in the capital city, bipartisanship is a--it's their
political faith. it's their ideology. when we talk about conservatives and their believe in the free market, for democrats here in d.c. they believe to the core of their being in compromise. it doesn't matter compromise of one, it's this religious faith of centrism. barack obama, you know, he was a deeper believer than most. he was not just committed to it as a clinton-esque move. he's ideologically committed to it. when you read about his memoir of 2006, this is what it's all about. everything that he thinks is sort of a compromise decision. he winds up with these very utterly conventional views of everything. but compromise bipartisanship, that's what he has been about since day one. >> eliot: as you point out in this article compromise my be a
viable world-view if the other side is converging to the middle. but where you have a republican party who is dead set against giving an inch whether it's medicare or economic, whatever it may be. his compromise forces him to move so far closer to them that he forsakes his core principles. >> to forsake his core principles is a dumb thing to do in a time of near depression of what we've been in the last three years. but dumb in terms of your basic game theory. you have one side that let's the world now that they're willing to compromise on everything. and then the other side, how are they going to play this? they'll drag the center right with them, on and on and constantly accuse the first guy of being an "iron partisan," of being a socialist. all this crazy talk that you constantly hear. it makes them move ever, ever,
further towards them. always receding, always out of reach for they will. it's just basic game theory. they totally played him. >> eliot: it's not only a matter of game theory but the underlying principles of governance. it's amazing where he has been outplayed and outmaneuvered stimulus where a third was tax cuts. i want to quote something. even though obama had a democratic congress to work with bipartisanship was the alter on which quality legislation was repeatedly sacrificed. that's what is so amazing to people. he did in fact have a democratic congress, and yet did not get anything through. >> that's right. i have a bunch of articles--a bunch of examples in my harper's article. i opened up the "new york times," there is another
devastating one. you remember cramden. this is what you had to do, let borrowers renegotiate mortgages whenhe's reaching out with a grand bargain. no, it killed the recovery. >> eliot: if i remember, it was then that dirk durbin, barack obama's former centerral colleague from illinois in a moment of disgusted turned against what you called cramdon. the capacity of judges to reform mortgages in a bankruptcy context. obviously something that needed to be done to save the economy and homeownerrers. >> there's nothing radical about it. >> eliot: absolutely not. and he stormed off the floor and said do the banks still own the place. >> in the immortal words of dick
durbin. democrat that i like a lot. when i look back over the last four years, i kept thinking, as i was watching events unfold, that events would force president obama's hand, okay, that he would have to rule like franklin roosevelt. he would have to think like franklin roosevelt and take these hard efforts if he wanted to bring recovery bring organized labor back and bring back if he wants to deal with unemployment, he has to do these things. he didn't. compromise bipartisanship was more important to him than fixing the situation. >> eliot: has his rhetoric caning changed recentry. >> oh, yeah. >> eliot: always reaching desperately to reach the other side. but he has needed to reinvigorate his campaign. and he gone back to the rhetoric of the campaign of '08.
>> i love seeing that and hearing it. he has changed histone. the change began last year during that crazy business with the debt cell ceiling. do you remember that. >> eliot: absolutely. >> he suddenly realized what a mistake he made. the historical platform that he had, and he flittered it away and obama is a very intelligent man, and suddenly it dawned on him. he has rhetorically he has really rediscovered the fire. but i think it might turn out--look, he's still in the lead. he has a terrible republican candidate, and i love watching him blast mitt romney. it is a hoot right? here is a guy who is a perfect target for it, for obama's rediscovered populous rhetoric. but it might be too little, too late. i mean unemployment is still unacceptably high. nothing else has changed. wall street is still in the
saddle. the banks are bigger than ever, and they've got a bailout every time they screw things up. >> eliot: i think you're absolutely right in the diagnose of and more importantly tim geithner who did not want the reform needing someone to push for it at a time we needed. thanks so much for coming on the show. >> sure thing. my pleasure. >> eliot: ann coulter talks about love. the viewfinder is next. "back to school" list. that way, the healthy habits they learn in school will reinforce the good habits you've already taught them at home. to learn more, visit lysol.com/schools. lysol. mission for health.
if you have copd like i do you know how hard it can be to breathe and what that feels like. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva helps control my copd symptoms by keeping my airways open a full 24 hours. plus, it reduces copd flare-ups. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled copd maintenance treatment that does both. and it's steroid-free. spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva. discuss all medicines you take, even
eye drops. stop taking spiriva and seek immediate medical help if your breathing suddenly worsens your throat or tongue swells you get hives, vision changes or eye pain, or problems passing urine. other side effects include dry mouth and constipation. nothing can reverse copd. spiriva helps me breathe better. does breathing with copd weigh you down? ask your doctor if spiriva can help. >> eliot: justjustice at wall street works in the reverse again and again. but first nancy pelosi on snack foods and the obamas on george clooney. when it doesn't fit anywhere else, we put it in the viewfinder. >> and now for your consumer report, weighing in on fruit by the foot and fruit roll ups here is nancy pelosi. >> thank you jimmy, both snacks
are great after school, recess, or when playing with friends. >> republicans must quit pretending that their new voteer i.d. laws have anything to do with stop fraudulent voting, and more about if black people want to vote they must first jump through a hoop. >> they look to the government to give them prenatal care. these are not programs to approve to bruce willis. >> it's not too bad being friends with george clooney. >> he's cute and a powerful man. >> and he's cute. >> she keeps adding that. >> i'm just saying. it's factual. >> when you unravel fruit by the foot. you're talking about three feet of knack advantage. and fruit roll up you get four inches of fruitletter.
>> you type in, who do you blame, my shirt or my suit. >> it could be your butler. >> i'm so angry at him. >> let's not judge this next girl we're going to talk about. we love her. honey boo boo. >> i want to be able to go out to a nascar bar watch the race, maybe go hunting one day fishing with my guy. is maybe some of this one person'sable of what man some is. >> i think i've just fall no one love. >> when it comes to flattened fruit candy, i got to go with fruit by the foot. >> would you believe that i once entered a beauty contest? i must have been out of my mind. i not only came in last, i got 361 get well cards. [laughter] >> eliot: phillies diller was a great act threat. a wall street whistle blower betrayed by the sec. that's coming up next.
>> eliot: what happens when the good guys end up taking the heat and the bad guys are allowed to walk? what happens when the watchdogs are looking out for the wrong side? this topsy-turvy world of alice in wonderland can only exist in one place--wall street. here via by skype to tell us another grievous story from wall street with the latest cool numb when"when wall street watchdogs hunt
whistle blowers"." billy cohan. >> i thank you for accommodating me in this technological medium, i appreciate the kind words but this once again has proven to me how little real regulation is going on of the sec of wall street. this is a story of a guy named peter severe who was basically a mid-level compliance officer at jpmorgan. you'll remember because you prosecuted this. there was a hedge fund involved, and bank of america was involved and then the sec after you filed your complaint the sec demanded of jpmorgan chase documents e-mails that might be--that might be helpful in terms of an investigation in
this matter. and peter severe tried to put together a dosier of documents and he kept finding documents that were incriminating of jpmorgan chase. up forunfortunately they fired him. they decided he was going to become a whistle blower of the sec. as we know there is a mechanism in place for people like peter severe to become a whistleblower, and the confidential conversation, this is where it gets incredible. he was fired. he filed a complaint with osha, claiming that he had been retaliated against for providing
the sec with these documents. osha found in fact, he was retaliated against. he was ordered to be reinstated by osha. he decided he didn't want to do that. he and jpmorgan settled for $350,000. pretty much that would be the end of the story except that peter decided to file a freedom of information act with osha to find out what had happened to him. that's when he found out that the lawyer that he confidentially spoke to had ratted him out. and he discovered that they broke--he broke the confidence that he had with this fellow. and told jpmorgan chase about the request that he had made to get paid via being a whistleblower, and basically the whole purpose of the whistleblower confidentiality
was blown by this lawyer turning in this poor guy. >> eliot: and so as it turns out, peter gets fired. recovers a little bit of money. jpmorgan chase basically walks away without a whole lot being done to them and the sec once again, the bad guys, the mall factors their lawyer violates the most fundamental confidence given that of a whistleblower informant. and they rat them out. the big wall street bank getting away reasonably scott free. and the one guy wanted to wantinged to something gets the raw end of the stick. >> that's exactly what happens. the lawyer for the sec who of course nothing happened to, he was allowed to retire, resign. he decided he wanted to run for congress congressional district on eastern long island. that was in may of this year.
he eventually decided not to pursue the race, maybe he would have lost. maybe the publicity about what happened around peter severe would be the thing that did him in. but once again you see how close in cahoots wall street is with the regulator who is supposed to be regulating regulating it. it's incredible how someone who is trying to do the right thing peter severe, loses his job and gets black balled by wall street by trying to do the right thing. >> eliot: this is what i call the mutual fund trading scandals. we broke this open eight or nine years ago when i was a.g. the sec was horrendous in this. did not want to agree to the most important part of the recommend iremedy, which is to drive the fees down because he down to explained how bad the sec has always been.
and then we find out jamie dimon, now the ceo of jpmorgan chase was personally involved in this trying to find out what had gone on at morgan chase. do you think he was aware of the magnitude of what was going on? >> well, he was, remember, it was the time that bank one had merged with jpmorgan chase. he was the president and coo. this was late in 2004, october of 2004. i think he was probably trying to get his hands around what was going on with this investigationish and there are a number of e-mails involving jamie dimon and the general counsel of jpmorgan joe goingen haimer what was going on here. one of the things that was discovered was that jpmorgan chase was financing the hedge fund to do the late trading that was, of course, costing consumers the millions of
dollars you were just talking about. >> eliot: when they were long islanding money to canary, which was the hedge fund. they knew that they were financing. this is the underlying corruption, and sec almost in bed with march morgan chase. >> when you have an sec lawyer calling up the lawyer for jpmorgan chase saying, hey this guy is a whistle blower. he's trying to get a bounty, which is perfectly legal. but for them to turn to the lawyer for jpmorgan chase to say, this guy is trying to get a bounty for us, and you should use that in your lawsuit against him. that's so shocking you couldn't even make it up if you wanted to to.
>> eliot: it's called corruption at the highest levels of wall street and the sec. it's a shame that's our government. bill cohan. as always, thanks so much for your time tonight. >> thanks, eliot. >> eliot: it only took 80 years but one of the last boys-only clubs finally opened it's doors to women. that's coming up. when a carpet is clean and fresh, it's irresistible. experience this in your home with resolve deep clean powder. its moist powder penetrates deep, removing three times more dirt than vacuuming alone while also neutralizing odors at their source. it's a clean you can see smell, and really enjoy. resolve deep clean powder. don't just vacuum clean, resolve clean.
so... [ gasps ] these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? maybe. rich chocolate chips... i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and, and...and then the awards started coming in, and i became addicted to the fame. topped with chocolaty drizzle... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. fiber beyond recognition.
>> eliot: republicans can run from todd akin but they can't hide. that's coming up on my view. but first let's check in with jennifer granholm in "the war room." good evening governor, what have we got going on. >> we're going to be all over those outrageous comments of congressman akin, too. the our attack is that the g.o.p. is trying to paint him as a fringe character. of course his views views are very much in fine with paul ryan and the rest of the g.o.p. we've got great guests inclusion nancy keannan, and
michael and we have more at the top of the hour. >> eliot: todd akin committed the ultimate sin. he said out loud what everyone thinks in their party, but they're showed to keep it a secret. >> exactly. we'll play a little whack a mole. >> eliot: we have more at the top of the hour. more "viewpoint" coming up next. >>you just think there is no low they won't go to. oh, no. if al gore's watching today...
>> eliot: for a party intent on closeing a endder endder back and pushing back against what it has called a misplaced claim the republican party keeps saying the most remarkable things. put aside defunding planned parenthood and mandatory invasive ultrasound bills, even though put paul ryan on the ticket. now this were todd akin, and from missouri, a new distinction distinction, legitimate rapes against ill legitimate rapes really?the new science that a body can shut down pregnancy in cases of legitimate rape. so even in extreme cases abortion should not be legal. 32,000 pregnants every year
results from rape. akin and where military mitt romney, mcconnell and kormyn and essentially every republican senator has turned on him. and control of the senate is really what is at stake here. control of the senate is a hugely important issue. let's not forget what hinges on this. the capacity to confirm justices and judges, construct policies in our country and fundamental views that reject science. it actually represents the world-view of akin and his like-minded republican colleagues. his comments are part and parcel of a view of civil rights, women's rights and science that should be antithetical to a
modern society. it reflects a world-view that has held up progress on too many serious issues. a form of know-noggins for the modern era. until there is a broader republican rejection of what the statement stands for those rejections ring awfully hollow. that's my view. the chill of peppermint. the rich dark chocolate. york peppermint pattie get the sensation.
the pressure to admit female members has been mounting since 2002 when martha burke began protesting the club over their male-only membership. after hearing augusta was adding female membership she you said, quote, oh my god we won. let's bring in dave zirus. host of the edge of the sports radio. thanks for joining us tonight. >> great to be here. >> is this good news, bad news, too late too little. what is your take? you've been outspoken on this issue. >> the only reason why it's a story, it reveals that in 2012 there is an elitest cloister in georgia who believe that girls still have cooties. now they're letting women speak
out as if it's on par with billie jean king and martina navratilova. i only think about darla moore and condoleezza rice who has become the eve perone to the right wing part. don't lisa rice has become like a states person. it is not a day for me to celebrate other than it is what it is. >> eliot: dare i say tokenism. the caboose has been dragged across the line where everybody else on the train got too far ahead. >> let's talk about augusta. the first time that an
african-american was allowed to play 1975. the first time that an african-american allowed to be a member, 1990. this is extreme tokenism. there is no plan to admit more women after that. now the sponsors had get off their back and extreme business pressure as well. people say it's a private club. shouldn't they have the right to be men only. of course you have that right in the united states. but its coupled with the fact that they have this golf tournament, the most popular golf tournament in the united states, the masterings, and masters. >> eliot: i think you're exactly right. it seems to me, and i don't know what is behind this, but the timing of the ceo of ibm and they've traditionally been offered a membership because they're prime sponsor of the masters.
she was not offered a membership. and it was finally when money and the masters began to converge in that significant way people said this has got to change. they found women who would join. it's a step forward but it's too little to late in response to the money and finally pressure was brought to bear. >> i agree. it's time to remind people in the audience who may not know. it's in the city of augusta georgia, where one-third of the population lives below the poverty line. it's an elitist world and in the middle of pain and suffering of american families, and in particular american women. and i remind people that the lives of the women of augusta georgia, compare nothing to
condoleezza rice or darla moore. >> eliot: they get lots of sponsorships and where have they been in pushing for reform. >> you will not find a more conservative group of professional athletes than in the world of golf. i don't think even golf is a sport. i think anything that you can gain weight or smoke cigarettes while doing is not a sport. they do exist in their own world. they have this bizarre skill where they can hit a small ball into a small hole and they make a great amount of money. and they're very conservative. if you track who they give money to, it's a conservative crew. they're not going to go against augusta national. >> eliot: i'm going to take a pass. i'm terrible at it. since i am so bad i don't want
it to seem like sour grapes but i agree with you. one of the things that we've seen historically in from the greatest athletes from mohammed ali, and also a cultural icon and political icon, that's what made him uniquely different. we have not seen that from the golf world. i think that is what we're waiting to see from our pro athletes these days. >> the name that hangs over this discussion is, of course, tiger woods. when tiger woods was somebody who first emerged on the scene. his late father said his goal for his son is not only to be better than jack nicholas but to be gandy. and tiger has chosen not to be that person. now there are a lot of people who say why do we put that burden on tiger? why not on phil mickelson, for example. given the history of segregation that has followed golf and the absence of opportunities, i mentioned lee elder not being able to play in the